Transcript
Kevin: Social media has transformed the way we interact with the world. For instance, nearly half of teens are on TikTok multiple times a day. While some schools have restricted social media usage, other educators have embraced these tools to engage teenagers and get them excited about learning. How are educators using social media to engage teens, what techniques are most effective, and how can social media actually help students learn? This is What I Want to Know, and today I'm joined by Sara Day to find out.
Kevin: Sara Day is the Teen Services librarian at the Woodland Public Library in California. She and her fellow librarians, Sara Vickers and Sylvia Moreno, have been featured on national news for their use of TikTok and other social media to entice students and adults to visit the library. Sara is here today to discuss how social media can be used by schools and libraries to help our kids learn and grow. Sara, welcome to the show.
Sara: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Kevin: There's so much I want to talk to you about; but first, you are a librarian. Did you always have a passion about libraries? I think you did.
Sara: Yeah, so when I was a little girl, I remember my cousin, for whatever reason, he was only like two years older than me, and he said, "When I get a car, I'll take you anywhere in the world you want to go." And I said, "Okay, I want to go to the library." And he said, "Are you sure? I'll take you to Disney World."And I was like, "Nope. I want to go to the libraries." So, being in libraries has always been a really big part of my life, and I love books, and I love to read, and I love storytelling. I didn't know I always wanted to be a librarian, but it is a really good fit, and I really enjoy the work that I do.
Kevin: Now I want to ask you why you think that is, but I'm asking you for everyone else because I do understand. When I was six years old, and I'm not going to tell you exactly what year that was, but when I was six years old, my most prized possession and the first thing I saw with my name on it was a library card. And every week, my mother or my father would take me to the library, and I got lost in books. I would read The Hardy Boys, which is an old mystery series. But why do you think you were drawn to libraries? You talked about the storytelling, but just sort of the physical nature of being in a library.
Sara: I've always loved to be surrounded by books. When I was growing up, my whole room was filled with books. My grandparents' house had a ton of books, and I think there's just something very cozy, very safe feeling for me when it comes to being surrounded by books and knowing that I could learn almost anything I wanted to just by pulling a book off the shelf, or get involved in a story that's so dissimilar from my own life and be enraptured in that for a while. I've always really enjoyed the imagination that goes along with books. My favorite book of all time is “The Hobbit” by J. R. R. Tolkien.
Kevin: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sara: So I very much get very involved and enraptured in books, and I think that for me to be a steward of that is really, really special and something I really, really love.
Kevin: I want to ask you because you're involved in a local library. Many people say that in today's world, libraries are outdated. I mean, how would you respond to that, especially with all that's going on. And we're going to talk about social media and the information overload that kids can get on their PDA, but talk about the value of libraries even today.
Sara: Yeah, absolutely. So for me, libraries are books and everything else now. If you look around me, this is our makerspace, so you can see we are books, but we're also this really amazing space that's totally free for people to use. They can 3D print; they can laser cut something; they can cut something out and make a vinyl sticker or a shirt, and they do have to bring some of their own supplies like a shirt. But everything in here is totally free to use, so libraries are really great at adapting to the community's needs. And I think that's how libraries have stayed relevant. And I know that a lot of people do think that libraries are outdated, but those are people who were trying to get back into the library 'cause they haven't been in a really long time. And when those people come in, they're like, "Oh, my God, I had no idea you had a makerspace," or, "Oh, my God, I didn't know you had free online tutoring for my kids," or whatever the case may be. So I think that libraries are books and so much more now, and I think they've always been that way.
Kevin: One thing that I've noticed is that libraries also can be a community hub of sorts because they have meeting space, and community groups will meet there, and while we're going to talk about children and the work you do as a Teen Services librarian, it is often multi-generational uses that libraries are able to offer.
Sara: Yeah, I mean, we have services from the time you were born to the time you have issues with mobility, and we still provide services for that. We try to cater to everybody who needs help in our community, and I know I don't speak just for my library when I say this, but we're all very community-focused. Without the community and their support, we would have a really hard time, so we're really lucky to be that community hub.
Kevin: So let's talk a little bit about the Woodland Public Library in California. That's where you work now. In your role as the Teen Services librarian, what do you do?
Sara: I do so many things. I manage the teen collection; I manage the teen advisory board. I'm the advisor. We run all of the teen programs. I collaborate with community partners; I do outreach. There are so many things. My mind is just going through the list. Anything teen-related, basically, I'm involved in doing it in some way.
Kevin: So, what are the things you do to help with teens who really are looking for a place where they can hang out and chill and not worry about being dictated to?
Sara: Yeah. Well, I would say first we provide the space. We have a dedicated teen space for teens to use. Adults are only allowed if they're with a teen; they can't just be in that area. We will ask them to move somewhere else, so I think creating that safe space, one, is a huge thing for them.
Something that I do personally is that I ask about their days, I ask how they're feeling, and I listen to what they have to say. I'm not saying that parents don't listen.
Kevin: Yeah, no.
Sara: I try to be as judgment-free as I possibly can. I have several teens that need to just vent about their parents, and I try to be a safe space for them to do that, someone that's not going to judge them, somebody who might offer them some advice. I'm not a teacher; I'm not a parent. I'm like this in between that luckily the kids in my teen advisory board feel comfortable enough to share things with, and hopefully what I do helps.
Kevin: So, I wanted to probe a little more on that because it will relate to some of the social media discussion I wanna have a little bit, but what are some of the issues that today's teens are grappling with that you hear?
Sara: For me, I would say the biggest issues are that they are trying to figure out their own identities and figure out who they are, and they're nervous to share that with their parents for one reason or another. And I try to be as generous as I can with that. I may have a teen that comes up to me and says, "My pronouns are she/her around my parents, but if you can call me he/him in this group, that would be great," and I try to abide by their wishes as much as I can, so that helps facilitate that safe space that they feel.
Kevin: I hope you're enjoying this episode of What I Want to Know, one of the most downloaded K-12 education podcasts in the country. Make sure you don't miss any of these important topics. Subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast or social media platform, and leave a rating and review so we can bring you more of the topics you want to hear about. Now, back to the conversation.
One of the things you also do is help provide reading for kids and young people. What are teens reading these days? What are some of the more popular types of books or specific books?
Sara: They love murder and romance. Every time they're like, "I'm looking for true crime murder," and I'm like, "Okay." But I think if there's a series by the same author or there are books by the same author, they'll just devour all of the author's books, and then be like, "Okay, I've read this author, I need another one." Something that they really love is that there's so much diversity in teen literature right now, and they can really see themselves in the pages, so I think that's part of the reason why romance really sticks out to them. It’s because they're like, "Oh, this is me. This is so nice." The murder, I think, there's just a true crime wave sweeping the nation right now, so they just really devour that, too.
Kevin: Well, let me ask you about your social media activities. You and your colleagues have been on NPR, national news, talking about how you've used social media as a hook for learning. Just talk about how that all has evolved with the Woodland Library.
Sara: So, originally we started specifically our TikTok page because it was in the middle of the pandemic, and we were like, "We need something to put a smile on our face." And we wanted to connect with the community in that way because they weren't able to come inside. And so, what that has developed into is a way to show off our library cat, but also a way to be like, "We're open. We're here. Here are some services we provide. Here are some books that you can pick up. Come on in. It's going to be great."
Kevin: Well, it's taken off. I mean, people are now writing about it, and look, I'm talking to you about it. Talk about this blow-up costume thing that sort of took on a life of its own. I mean, where did that come from?
Sara: That idea was before I got here. When I got here, they were like, "We bought you a Pikachu costume," and I said, "Okay," so it's something that the kids especially really love. The teens on my teen advisory board are begging to be in them at this point. They want to be in TikToks, but they also are like, "Can I be the Pikachu? Can I be the unicorn? I want to be a unicorn in a TikTok." And I'm like, "Okay, that's fine." So not only do we have people who are like, "That's the librarian who's the Pikachu," we also have my own teens being like, "Can we do this? 'Cause that looks so much fun," so that's been really, really cool.
Kevin: Oh, yeah, no, there's no doubt about that, and that's part of the fun. But have you seen a clear increase in students' sort of participation in school or interest in school? Because that's what people are wondering, even as you look at some of the news stories. Maybe this is something that is fun for them to do after school, but does it really help with learning? What are your thoughts?
Sara: I think it definitely can. I think that's why creators like Hank Green are so popular because they give you new information in like 30 seconds to a minute, and it takes less time to focus, but you learn all of this information, so I think in that way, especially, TikTok can be really helpful. I would say that that wouldn't be our primary focus, so we do show off books, but I do think that the rapidness of TikTok is really helpful for keeping a student's focus.
Kevin: What other social media outlets do you use? I know Instagram, but as your social media program grew, what are some of the other social media outlets you use?
Sara: So we do use Instagram, and then we also use Facebook right now. Facebook hits the parents and the older demographic, and then Instagram kind of hits the younger teens. We have several teens on my teen advisory board that follow the Instagram, which is always really nice to see, so those are the three that we primarily use at this time.
Kevin: So there's another side to TikTok, which I know you hear about, where while it has become so popular and kids are very creative with it, you all have been creative with it in terms of facilitating opportunities for kids to participate and grow their sort of community within a community. But you have former President Trump, you have President Biden, you have Senator Warner all talking about how TikTok needs to be banned or sold to a U.S. company because of the China government's ownership and access to information. What are your thoughts around that? I know that's politics at a different level, but it's relevant because it may impact whether or not TikTok is around.
Sara: Right. Well, I think the way we have always seen TikTok is that social media changes so quickly. What's popular changes so rapidly that we know that one day TikTok will not probably be the most used social media. So we are always trying to get ready to adapt for other social media that come up. So if TikTok does go away, we can still use the skills that we have learned for different social media platforms and be able to hit the teens and the parents on a different social media platform still because we can transfer those skills out. I've always kind of known that that was a possibility, and I know my team and I are very aware of it. So we're very conscious of making sure that, "How can we use Instagram to better serve this population? How can we put it on Facebook? What are the other things that we could possibly be doing?" So I think one of the good things that came from the pandemic was that we have learned to be adaptable and flexible, so if that does happen, we're ready for it.
Kevin: Another previous guest I had was Titania Jordan, who's an advocate for parents' and teens' appropriate use of social media, making sure it's safe, making sure that the time allocations make sense, that kids aren't just on it 15 hours a day or... In your teen services group, do you have any rules of the road, any orientation or conversations with teens about how to use the platform, how to minimize use so it's not overused? Do you have those kinds of discussions?
Sara: We do, and it's actually surprising because several of my teens tell me that they limit themselves. I have one student who says every morning instead of being on her phone, she meditates for 15 minutes and then starts her day and doesn't touch her phone until much later in the day. So I think there are some kids who are aware that they shouldn't be spending all their time on this platform, and they are taking steps to make themselves do other things.
Kevin: Interesting.
Sara: I think, yeah, it was really, when I heard her say that, I was like, "Oh, my God, you're so ahead of the game." But I think I do say with a caveat to them, I'm like, "Not that you should be spending all of your time on TikTok, but if you would like to participate in filming TikToks, please let me know," and I think that also helps them get more buy-in, but also gives them something. They're not scrolling mindlessly; they're doing something active, so I think that conversation is always going to continue for now.
Kevin: So Sara, schools and libraries have always had this interesting relationship, and it seems to me with the work you're doing at Woodland with teens and social media, that teachers could learn from you, that teachers are generally trying to control the social media usage of kids in their classroom. But what advice would you give teachers who are trying to find a way to at least allow kids a little more freedom yet at the same time control their classroom so it doesn't get out of hand? What rules of the road would you give to a teacher?
Sara: I think I would say that there is a way to incorporate both things. If you're really having a hard time keeping kids off social media during class, then that might be a good way to incorporate some kind of project that also highlights that. Because I find when I give my teens something to do, they're really focused. Like if I have a craft project for them or if we're in square one, which is our makerspace, and I tell them to film something, they're really engaged and really on it. So I would just encourage maybe something hands-on. A lot of students learn better that way, me being one of them, so I think that was what I would encourage them to try.
Kevin: I actually love that answer. In other words, lean into it, take advantage of their interests and channel it into something productive. I think that's a great answer.
One last question. This is what I really want to know. You've talked about the libraries being this place where kids can celebrate reading and read the things they like. Even if it's murder and romance, they can do that. But how can you use social media and TikTok to further the education and reading that already exists in a library? How are you bringing all that together?
Sara: I think there are several ways you could go about it. The first one being if you don't have a lot of time, just highlighting maybe some books on a particular genre or books that you just got in or something like that. We've done that for a few different themes. We've done that for New Book Tuesday; we did one for Black History Month. Things like that are pretty easy.
The other thing I would maybe suggest is try to do something that highlights a book, and what I mean by that is if you take — for example, I saw a different library do this, and I think it was a really great idea — they took Twilight, and they were like, "If a library was in Twilight..." I think that's a really great way to get people like, "I wonder what that book's about. I wonder why that person is glittering." There's a lot of different ways to engage them that way, and so I think that's something we'll be looking into doing in the future because I think it's just a great way to get people engaged.
We did a Wednesday Addams one not too long ago, and then I did a Wednesday Addams book display so they could get books that Wednesday Adams would've read. So I think there's a way to mesh what's going on in popular culture and what can be happening at the library, and I think that can encourage kids to pick up a book and read. I had several kids who were like, "Oh, Wednesday Addams book recs? That's awesome," so I think there is a way to engage that way.
Kevin: Yeah, you could also sort of have some theme blow-up costumes around popular books. You should try that one as well.
Sara: Yeah. Yeah, we always love getting more blow-up costumes, so that's definitely on our list.
Kevin: Well, Sara Day, I appreciate what you're doing. You're the Teen Services librarian at Woodland Public Library in California. Thanks for joining us on What I Want to Know.
Sara: Thank you so much for having me.
Kevin: Thanks for listening to What I Want to Know. Be sure to follow and subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app so you can explore other episodes and dive into our discussions on the future of education and write a review of the show. I also encourage you to join the conversation and let me know what you want to know using #WIWTK on social media. That's #WIWTK. For more information on Stride and online education, visit stridelearning.com. I'm your host, Kevin P. Chavous. Thank you for joining What I Want to Know.
Meet Sara
Sara Day is the teen services librarian at the Woodland Public Library in California. She and her fellow librarians have been featured on national news for using TikTok and other social media to entice students and adults to visit the library.
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What I Want to Know
In this podcast, you will hear from leaders in education as we talk through learning solutions for homeschool, online school, education pathways, and topics tailored specifically to online students and parents.
